[Internal-cg] Contracting

Sat May 2 17:06:27 UTC 2015

Dear James
Alissa and those supporting her could jointly or individually write to Steve or Fadi asking  formal clarification on the matter but not in the Name of ICG which I strongly believe that should not intervene in this negotiation.
We must be aware that   We are neither a judge nor arbiter.
Regards
Kavousd   

Sent from my iPhone

> On 30 Apr 2015, at 19:17, James M. Bladel <jbladel at godaddy.com> wrote:
> 
> Agree, with Milton, and disagree with Kavous¹ description of the intent of
> Alissa¹s actions.
> 
> ICANN Staff (possibly without approval or awareness of their Board?) is
> intervening in the proposal process in an non-transparent and un-deinfed
> manner.  It is perfectly appropriate for the ICG to respond as Alissa has
> indicated, and in fact it is our responsibility to do so.
> 
> Please note that her statement reinforces the process of submitting
> feedback, without regard to the substance of those discussions.
> 
> Thanks‹
> 
> J.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 4/30/15, 11:45 , "Milton L Mueller" <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> My understanding of the consensus process is that one cannot simply
>> object, one must have viable reasons to object.
>> In my view, Kavouss has not advanced a single substantive reason for his
>> resistance. 
>> 
>> I look forward to a meaningful explanation from Kavouss, something more
>> than a joke about "international court of justice", something that takes
>> account of the process concerns that have been voiced by Alissa, myself,
>> others. I must insist that we do not have such an explanation yet,
>> Kavouss, and it is your responsibility to provide one if you expect me to
>> take your objections seriously.
>> 
>> --MM
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:alissa at cooperw.in]
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 11:03 AM
>>> To: Kavouss Arasteh
>>> Cc: Milton L Mueller; internal-cg at ianacg.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] Contracting
>>> 
>>> Hi Kavouss,
>>> 
>>> Your objection to issuing an ICG statement about
>>> contracts/agreements is noted.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alissa
>>> 
>>> On Apr 30, 2015, at 3:19 AM, Kavouss Arasteh
>>> <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Alussa
>>>> It seems that
>>>> ICG becoming the I international  Court of Justice.
>>>> Wgat us the natter that we becoming of OCs
>>>> Pls clarify and  this time No Note to be issued until every body
>>> agreed
>>>> I an very disappointed by your previous action that the consensus
>>>> tules were breached openly Pls be careful and nit to do it again Best
>>>> regards Kavouss
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On 29 Apr 2015, at 17:41, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good statement. I support it as is.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> ICG Statement on Contracts and Other Agreements
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As the development of the proposal for the IANA stewardship
>>>>>> transition proceeds, operational communities have begun
>>> discussions
>>>>>> with ICANN concerning contracts and other agreements called for
>>> in
>>>>>> their community transition proposals. The ICG expects -- as it has
>>>>>> from the very beginning of the transition process -- that all
>>>>>> interested parties, including ICANN staff, express their opinions
>>>>>> about the transition proposals openly and transparently within the
>>>>>> community processes. This includes opinions about the provisions,
>>>>>> principles, and mechanisms associated with contracts or other
>>>>>> agreements between the communities and the IANA functions
>>> operator.
>>>>>> Attempts to alter or deviate from the community consensus
>>> proposals
>>>>>> through private negotiations undermine the legitimacy of the
>>>>>> transition proposal development process. At a time when all of
>>> the
>>>>>> communities are focused on accountability, all parties have the
>>> same
>>>>>> obligation to carry out discussions in an open manner within
>>>>>> established community processes.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Apr 26, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Alissa Cooper <alissa at cooperw.in>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The thread below as well as the following paragraph in Milton¹s
>>>>>> memo raised a question for me:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ³... negotiations between CRISP and ICANN legal raise a very
>>>>>> important process issue. As ICG we have viewed ourselves as an
>>>>>> entity that receives consensus proposals from the operational
>>>>>> communities and does not try to alter them. Shouldn¹t we expect
>>> the
>>>>>> same from ICANN? If ICANN legal is attempting to make major
>>>>>> alterations in the terms of the contractual rights exercised by an
>>>>>> operational community as part of the transition, isn¹t it
>>>>>> interfering with the consensus proposal of the affected
>>> operational
>>>>>> community? There is also the fact that these negotiations are
>>> going
>>>>>> on behind the scenes and are not transparent to the whole
>>> involved community.²
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My understanding is that the IETF folks are encountering some of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same things as CRISP. Do we think it would help if the ICG put out
>>> a
>>>>>> statement of some sort indicating that we continue to expect all
>>>>>> interested parties, including ICANN staff, to express their opinions
>>>>>> about the transition proposals openly and transparently within the
>>>>>> community processes? And that includes opinions about the
>>>>>> acceptability of principles and mechanisms associated with
>>>>>> contractual arrangements between the communities and the
>>> IANA
>>>>>> functions operator?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Alissa
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 5:34 AM, Lynn St.Amour
>>> <Lynn at LStAmour.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Milton,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> A big +1 to "Let me also remind us that this is a bottom up
>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>> and ICG has no business modifying or rejecting proposals based on
>>>>>> what it thinks NTIA wants.  NTIA¹s criteria are public us and they
>>>>>> do _not_ include any thing about splitting the IANA functions."
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2015, at 10:15 AM, Milton L Mueller
>>> <mueller at syr.edu>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi, reading these notes, I see this from Keith:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ³NTIA suggests that anything which threatens to split the IANA
>>>>>> functions would be difficult for them to accept - so the idea that
>>>>>> Protocols, Numbers or Names would have independent right of
>>> contract
>>>>>> termination maybe troublesome to NTIA ?²
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I was not there for the full context, of course, so I may be
>>>>>> misinterpreting, but on its face this is incorrect, in my opinion. I
>>>>>> would like to know from Keith when and where NTIA suggested
>>> this.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Let¹s keep in mind that IETF already has the right to ³split² or
>>>>>> terminate its MoU with ICANN and has had that right for 15 years
>>>>>> through various iterations of the IANA contract. CRISP has
>>> proposed
>>>>>> something similar.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Let me also remind us that this is a bottom up process and ICG
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>> no business modifying or rejecting proposals based on what it
>>> thinks
>>>>>> NTIA wants. NTIA¹s criteria are public us and they do _not_ include
>>>>>> any thing about splitting the IANA functions.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --MM
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> From: Internal-cg [mailto:internal-cg-bounces at ianacg.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Jennifer Chung
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 12:10 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: internal-cg at ianacg.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] ICG Call #15: Attendance list and
>>> Chat
>>>>>> Transcript
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Apologies, the attachment was missing to the last email.
>>>>>>>>> Attached
>>>>>> please find the chat transcript for ICG Call 15.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Jennifer
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> From: Jennifer Chung [mailto:jen at icgsec.asia]
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 12:09 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: 'internal-cg at ianacg.org'
>>>>>>>>> Subject: ICG Call #15: Attendance list and Chat Transcript
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Please find the chat transcript (attached) and the attendance
>>>>>>>>> roll
>>>>>> call (below) for Call 15.  Please let me know if you note any
>>>>>> discrepancies:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ICG Members
>>>>>>>>> Kavouss Arasteh (GAC)
>>>>>>>>> Paul Wilson (NRO)
>>>>>>>>> Daniel Karrenberg (RSSAC)
>>>>>>>>> Keith Davidson (ccNSO)
>>>>>>>>> Alissa Cooper (IETF)
>>>>>>>>> Jean-Jacques Subrenat (ALAC)
>>>>>>>>> Jari Arkko (IETF)
>>>>>>>>> Martin Boyle (ccNSO)
>>>>>>>>> Demi Getschko (ISOC)
>>>>>>>>> Jandyr Ferreira dos Santos (GAC)
>>>>>>>>> Keith Drazek (gTLD Registries)
>>>>>>>>> Jon Nevett (gTLD Registries)
>>>>>>>>> Lynn St. Amour (IAB)
>>>>>>>>> Michael Niebel (GAC)
>>>>>>>>> Narelle Clark (ISOC)
>>>>>>>>> Russ Housley (IAB)
>>>>>>>>> Russ Mundy (SSAC)
>>>>>>>>> Wolf-Ulrich Knoben (GNSO)
>>>>>>>>> Xiaodong Lee (ccNSO)
>>>>>>>>> Alan Barrett (NRO)
>>>>>>>>> Lars-Johan Liman (RSSAC)
>>>>>>>>> Joseph Alhadeff (ICC/BASIS)
>>>>>>>>> Mary Uduma (ccNSO)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Liaisons
>>>>>>>>> Elise Gerich (IANA Staff Liaison)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Apologies
>>>>>>>>> Kuo Wei Wu (ICANN Board Liaison)
>>>>>>>>> James Bladel (GNSO)
>>>>>>>>> Milton Mueller (GNSO)
>>>>>>>>> Hartmut Glaser (ASO)
>>>>>>>>> Manal Ismail (GAC)
>>>>>>>>> Mohamed El Bashir (ALAC)
>>>>>>>>> Patrik Fältström (SSAC)
>>>>>>>>> Thomas Schneider (GAC)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Jennifer
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Internal-cg mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Internal-cg at mm.ianacg.org
>>>>>>>>> http://mm.ianacg.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg_ianacg.org
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Internal-cg mailing list
>>>>>>>> Internal-cg at mm.ianacg.org
>>>>>>>> http://mm.ianacg.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg_ianacg.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Internal-cg mailing list
>>>>>>> Internal-cg at mm.ianacg.org
>>>>>>> http://mm.ianacg.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg_ianacg.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Internal-cg mailing list
>>>>>> Internal-cg at mm.ianacg.org
>>>>>> http://mm.ianacg.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg_ianacg.org
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Internal-cg mailing list
>>>>> Internal-cg at mm.ianacg.org
>>>>> http://mm.ianacg.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg_ianacg.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Internal-cg mailing list
>> Internal-cg at mm.ianacg.org
>> http://mm.ianacg.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg_ianacg.org
> 