[Internal-cg] Contracting
Alissa Cooper
alissa at cooperw.in
Thu Apr 30 15:00:56 UTC 2015
Hi Narelle,
Could you elaborate a bit more about what sort of query would work here? What would we be asking and of whom?
Thanks,
Alissa
On Apr 29, 2015, at 11:44 PM, Narelle Clark <narelle.clark at accan.org.au> wrote:
> I have to admit that I share some of Kavouss' concerns about intervention here. Kuo Wei has undertaken to investigate.
>
> That said, I must also express the most extreme concern with respect to what it is being reported from the ARIN meeting. In my experience, it is normal business practice to have some - shall we call it - "Lawyer post-processing" of a set of principles, process or agreement to be contracted/under contract, but these reports, if true, appear to threaten the good faith process everyone is undertaking and therefore even the multi-stakeholder model itself.
>
> Indeed, at the heart of the NTIA criteria is that any new system must support and enhance the multistakeholder model.
>
> I would prefer the "statement" be addressed as a query. And couple with that a reminder of the essential part of the transition.
>
> This would be a more conciliatory approach to this issue.
>
>
> Best regards
>
>
> Narelle
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Internal-cg [mailto:internal-cg-bounces at ianacg.org] On Behalf Of Milton L Mueller
> Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2015 1:42 AM
> To: 'Alissa Cooper'; 'internal-cg at ianacg.org'
> Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] Contracting
>
> Good statement. I support it as is.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> ICG Statement on Contracts and Other Agreements
>>
>> As the development of the proposal for the IANA stewardship transition
>> proceeds, operational communities have begun discussions with ICANN
>> concerning contracts and other agreements called for in their
>> community transition proposals. The ICG expects -- as it has from the
>> very beginning of the transition process -- that all interested
>> parties, including ICANN staff, express their opinions about the
>> transition proposals openly and transparently within the community
>> processes. This includes opinions about the provisions, principles,
>> and mechanisms associated with contracts or other agreements between
>> the communities and the IANA functions operator. Attempts to alter or
>> deviate from the community consensus proposals through private
>> negotiations undermine the legitimacy of the transition proposal
>> development process. At a time when all of the communities are focused
>> on accountability, all parties have the same obligation to carry out
>> discussions in an open manner within established community processes.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> On Apr 26, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Alissa Cooper <alissa at cooperw.in> wrote:
>>
>>> The thread below as well as the following paragraph in Milton’s
>> memo raised a question for me:
>>>
>>> “... negotiations between CRISP and ICANN legal raise a very
>> important process issue. As ICG we have viewed ourselves as an entity
>> that receives consensus proposals from the operational communities and
>> does not try to alter them. Shouldn’t we expect the same from ICANN?
>> If ICANN legal is attempting to make major alterations in the terms of
>> the contractual rights exercised by an operational community as part
>> of the transition, isn’t it interfering with the consensus proposal of
>> the affected operational community? There is also the fact that these
>> negotiations are going on behind the scenes and are not transparent to
>> the whole involved community.”
>>>
>>> My understanding is that the IETF folks are encountering some of the
>> same things as CRISP. Do we think it would help if the ICG put out a
>> statement of some sort indicating that we continue to expect all
>> interested parties, including ICANN staff, to express their opinions
>> about the transition proposals openly and transparently within the
>> community processes? And that includes opinions about the
>> acceptability of principles and mechanisms associated with contractual
>> arrangements between the communities and the IANA functions operator?
>>>
>>> Alissa
>>>
>>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 5:34 AM, Lynn St.Amour <Lynn at LStAmour.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Milton,
>>>>
>>>> A big +1 to "Let me also remind us that this is a bottom up process
>> and ICG has no business modifying or rejecting proposals based on what
>> it thinks NTIA wants. NTIA’s criteria are public us and they do _not_
>> include any thing about splitting the IANA functions."
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 23, 2015, at 10:15 AM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, reading these notes, I see this from Keith:
>>>>>
>>>>> “NTIA suggests that anything which threatens to split the IANA
>> functions would be difficult for them to accept ‐ so the idea that
>> Protocols, Numbers or Names would have independent right of contract
>> termination maybe troublesome to NTIA ?”
>>>>>
>>>>> I was not there for the full context, of course, so I may be
>> misinterpreting, but on its face this is incorrect, in my opinion. I
>> would like to know from Keith when and where NTIA suggested this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let’s keep in mind that IETF already has the right to “split” or
>> terminate its MoU with ICANN and has had that right for 15 years
>> through various iterations of the IANA contract. CRISP has proposed
>> something similar.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me also remind us that this is a bottom up process and ICG has
>> no business modifying or rejecting proposals based on what it thinks
>> NTIA wants. NTIA’s criteria are public us and they do _not_ include
>> any thing about splitting the IANA functions.
>>>>>
>>>>> --MM
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Internal-cg [mailto:internal-cg-bounces at ianacg.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jennifer Chung
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 12:10 PM
>>>>> To: internal-cg at ianacg.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] ICG Call #15: Attendance list and Chat
>> Transcript
>>>>>
>>>>> Apologies, the attachment was missing to the last email. Attached
>> please find the chat transcript for ICG Call 15.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jennifer
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Jennifer Chung [mailto:jen at icgsec.asia]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 12:09 PM
>>>>> To: 'internal-cg at ianacg.org'
>>>>> Subject: ICG Call #15: Attendance list and Chat Transcript
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Please find the chat transcript (attached) and the attendance roll
>> call (below) for Call 15. Please let me know if you note any
>> discrepancies:
>>>>>
>>>>> ICG Members
>>>>> Kavouss Arasteh (GAC)
>>>>> Paul Wilson (NRO)
>>>>> Daniel Karrenberg (RSSAC)
>>>>> Keith Davidson (ccNSO)
>>>>> Alissa Cooper (IETF)
>>>>> Jean-Jacques Subrenat (ALAC)
>>>>> Jari Arkko (IETF)
>>>>> Martin Boyle (ccNSO)
>>>>> Demi Getschko (ISOC)
>>>>> Jandyr Ferreira dos Santos (GAC)
>>>>> Keith Drazek (gTLD Registries)
>>>>> Jon Nevett (gTLD Registries)
>>>>> Lynn St. Amour (IAB)
>>>>> Michael Niebel (GAC)
>>>>> Narelle Clark (ISOC)
>>>>> Russ Housley (IAB)
>>>>> Russ Mundy (SSAC)
>>>>> Wolf-Ulrich Knoben (GNSO)
>>>>> Xiaodong Lee (ccNSO)
>>>>> Alan Barrett (NRO)
>>>>> Lars-Johan Liman (RSSAC)
>>>>> Joseph Alhadeff (ICC/BASIS)
>>>>> Mary Uduma (ccNSO)
>>>>>
>>>>> Liaisons
>>>>> Elise Gerich (IANA Staff Liaison)
>>>>>
>>>>> Apologies
>>>>> Kuo Wei Wu (ICANN Board Liaison)
>>>>> James Bladel (GNSO)
>>>>> Milton Mueller (GNSO)
>>>>> Hartmut Glaser (ASO)
>>>>> Manal Ismail (GAC)
>>>>> Mohamed El Bashir (ALAC)
>>>>> Patrik Fältström (SSAC)
>>>>> Thomas Schneider (GAC)
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jennifer
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Internal-cg mailing list
>>>>> Internal-cg at mm.ianacg.org
>>>>> http://mm.ianacg.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg_ianacg.org
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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