[Internal-cg] Contracting

Fri May 1 09:49:14 UTC 2015

Patrik,
You may react as individual ,.
You as

2015-05-01 11:48 GMT+02:00 Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>:

> Dear Subrenat,
> Thank you very much for your useful and valid viesws
> When you say , "WE"whom you referring ?
> ÏCG"?
> I do not belieive that we ICG as a collegial body have been given any
> mandate to take any action in this regard unless OCs referred the complaint
> in question to us within the process of IANA transition process.
> Once we formally received any complaint and found that it merely relates
> to IABNA TRANSITION and not existing procedure between ICANN and OCs ,then
> we could examine the care and findout whether we need to take any action in
> that regard
> Once again if it relates to CWG SECOND DRAFT WHICH IS ON PUBLIC COMMENT
> ,WE SHALL NOT INTERVENE AS WE HAVE NOT FORMALLY RECEIVED ANY THING FROM CWG.
> We are not spokemen of IETF nor RIREs
> Regards
> KAVOUSS
>
> 2015-05-01 11:30 GMT+02:00 Subrenat, Jean-Jacques <jjs at dyalog.net>:
>
>> Dear Patrik,
>>
>> I support your position, and Alissa's initiative, as a proper and timely
>> defense of principles. Having been on the ICANN Board, and seen forces at
>> play, I must say that awareness can never be too high about the risk of
>> capture by various interests, generally to the detriment of the global
>> Internet user.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Jean-Jacques.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Mail original -----
>> De: "Patrik Fältström" <paf at frobbit.se>
>> À: "James M. Bladel" <jbladel at godaddy.com>
>> Cc: internal-cg at ianacg.org
>> Envoyé: Vendredi 1 Mai 2015 09:43:28
>> Objet: Re: [Internal-cg] Contracting
>>
>> Let me state explicitly that Alissa and I have talked about this and as
>> co-chair of ICG I feel I am required to point out publicly (again) that
>> _everyone_ must use the processes the OCs define for bottom-up
>> multistakeholder participation.
>>
>> If someone, specifically ICANN I must say, is not using the process
>> defined by the OC, I feel I will later on have issues to defend whatever
>> ICG will deliver to NTIA.
>>
>> So when I say I support a message from us, I do this as a co-chair of ICG
>> and not only as an individual participating.
>>
>> What I wrote earlier on was a clarification that ICANN staff might not
>> understand that they MUST participate in the OC processes because normally
>> they are forbidden to participate in the PDPs running in the various OCs.
>>
>>    Patrik Fältström
>>    ICG co-chair
>>
>> On 30 Apr 2015, at 19:17, James M. Bladel wrote:
>>
>> > Agree, with Milton, and disagree with Kavous¹ description of the intent
>> of
>> > Alissa¹s actions.
>> >
>> > ICANN Staff (possibly without approval or awareness of their Board?) is
>> > intervening in the proposal process in an non-transparent and un-deinfed
>> > manner.  It is perfectly appropriate for the ICG to respond as Alissa
>> has
>> > indicated, and in fact it is our responsibility to do so.
>> >
>> > Please note that her statement reinforces the process of submitting
>> > feedback, without regard to the substance of those discussions.
>> >
>> > Thanks‹
>> >
>> > J.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 4/30/15, 11:45 , "Milton L Mueller" <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >> My understanding of the consensus process is that one cannot simply
>> >> object, one must have viable reasons to object.
>> >> In my view, Kavouss has not advanced a single substantive reason for
>> his
>> >> resistance.
>> >>
>> >> I look forward to a meaningful explanation from Kavouss, something more
>> >> than a joke about "international court of justice", something that
>> takes
>> >> account of the process concerns that have been voiced by Alissa,
>> myself,
>> >> others. I must insist that we do not have such an explanation yet,
>> >> Kavouss, and it is your responsibility to provide one if you expect me
>> to
>> >> take your objections seriously.
>> >>
>> >> --MM
>> >>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:alissa at cooperw.in]
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 11:03 AM
>> >>> To: Kavouss Arasteh
>> >>> Cc: Milton L Mueller; internal-cg at ianacg.org
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] Contracting
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Kavouss,
>> >>>
>> >>> Your objection to issuing an ICG statement about
>> >>> contracts/agreements is noted.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>> Alissa
>> >>>
>> >>> On Apr 30, 2015, at 3:19 AM, Kavouss Arasteh
>> >>> <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Alussa
>> >>>> It seems that
>> >>>> ICG becoming the I international  Court of Justice.
>> >>>> Wgat us the natter that we becoming of OCs
>> >>>> Pls clarify and  this time No Note to be issued until every body
>> >>> agreed
>> >>>> I an very disappointed by your previous action that the consensus
>> >>>> tules were breached openly Pls be careful and nit to do it again Best
>> >>>> regards Kavouss
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 29 Apr 2015, at 17:41, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Good statement. I support it as is.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> ICG Statement on Contracts and Other Agreements
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> As the development of the proposal for the IANA stewardship
>> >>>>>> transition proceeds, operational communities have begun
>> >>> discussions
>> >>>>>> with ICANN concerning contracts and other agreements called for
>> >>> in
>> >>>>>> their community transition proposals. The ICG expects -- as it has
>> >>>>>> from the very beginning of the transition process -- that all
>> >>>>>> interested parties, including ICANN staff, express their opinions
>> >>>>>> about the transition proposals openly and transparently within the
>> >>>>>> community processes. This includes opinions about the provisions,
>> >>>>>> principles, and mechanisms associated with contracts or other
>> >>>>>> agreements between the communities and the IANA functions
>> >>> operator.
>> >>>>>> Attempts to alter or deviate from the community consensus
>> >>> proposals
>> >>>>>> through private negotiations undermine the legitimacy of the
>> >>>>>> transition proposal development process. At a time when all of
>> >>> the
>> >>>>>> communities are focused on accountability, all parties have the
>> >>> same
>> >>>>>> obligation to carry out discussions in an open manner within
>> >>>>>> established community processes.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ---
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Apr 26, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Alissa Cooper <alissa at cooperw.in>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The thread below as well as the following paragraph in Milton¹s
>> >>>>>> memo raised a question for me:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ³... negotiations between CRISP and ICANN legal raise a very
>> >>>>>> important process issue. As ICG we have viewed ourselves as an
>> >>>>>> entity that receives consensus proposals from the operational
>> >>>>>> communities and does not try to alter them. Shouldn¹t we expect
>> >>> the
>> >>>>>> same from ICANN? If ICANN legal is attempting to make major
>> >>>>>> alterations in the terms of the contractual rights exercised by an
>> >>>>>> operational community as part of the transition, isn¹t it
>> >>>>>> interfering with the consensus proposal of the affected
>> >>> operational
>> >>>>>> community? There is also the fact that these negotiations are
>> >>> going
>> >>>>>> on behind the scenes and are not transparent to the whole
>> >>> involved community.²
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> My understanding is that the IETF folks are encountering some of
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>> same things as CRISP. Do we think it would help if the ICG put out
>> >>> a
>> >>>>>> statement of some sort indicating that we continue to expect all
>> >>>>>> interested parties, including ICANN staff, to express their
>> opinions
>> >>>>>> about the transition proposals openly and transparently within the
>> >>>>>> community processes? And that includes opinions about the
>> >>>>>> acceptability of principles and mechanisms associated with
>> >>>>>> contractual arrangements between the communities and the
>> >>> IANA
>> >>>>>> functions operator?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Alissa
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 5:34 AM, Lynn St.Amour
>> >>> <Lynn at LStAmour.org>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Milton,
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> A big +1 to "Let me also remind us that this is a bottom up
>> >>>>>>>> process
>> >>>>>> and ICG has no business modifying or rejecting proposals based on
>> >>>>>> what it thinks NTIA wants.  NTIA¹s criteria are public us and they
>> >>>>>> do _not_ include any thing about splitting the IANA functions."
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Lynn
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2015, at 10:15 AM, Milton L Mueller
>> >>> <mueller at syr.edu>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, reading these notes, I see this from Keith:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> ³NTIA suggests that anything which threatens to split the IANA
>> >>>>>> functions would be difficult for them to accept - so the idea that
>> >>>>>> Protocols, Numbers or Names would have independent right of
>> >>> contract
>> >>>>>> termination maybe troublesome to NTIA ?²
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I was not there for the full context, of course, so I may be
>> >>>>>> misinterpreting, but on its face this is incorrect, in my opinion.
>> I
>> >>>>>> would like to know from Keith when and where NTIA suggested
>> >>> this.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Let¹s keep in mind that IETF already has the right to ³split² or
>> >>>>>> terminate its MoU with ICANN and has had that right for 15 years
>> >>>>>> through various iterations of the IANA contract. CRISP has
>> >>> proposed
>> >>>>>> something similar.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Let me also remind us that this is a bottom up process and ICG
>> >>>>>>>>> has
>> >>>>>> no business modifying or rejecting proposals based on what it
>> >>> thinks
>> >>>>>> NTIA wants. NTIA¹s criteria are public us and they do _not_ include
>> >>>>>> any thing about splitting the IANA functions.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> --MM
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> From: Internal-cg [mailto:internal-cg-bounces at ianacg.org] On
>> >>>>>> Behalf Of Jennifer Chung
>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 12:10 PM
>> >>>>>>>>> To: internal-cg at ianacg.org
>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] ICG Call #15: Attendance list and
>> >>> Chat
>> >>>>>> Transcript
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Apologies, the attachment was missing to the last email.
>> >>>>>>>>> Attached
>> >>>>>> please find the chat transcript for ICG Call 15.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Best,
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Jennifer
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> From: Jennifer Chung [mailto:jen at icgsec.asia]
>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 12:09 PM
>> >>>>>>>>> To: 'internal-cg at ianacg.org'
>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: ICG Call #15: Attendance list and Chat Transcript
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Dear All,
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Please find the chat transcript (attached) and the attendance
>> >>>>>>>>> roll
>> >>>>>> call (below) for Call 15.  Please let me know if you note any
>> >>>>>> discrepancies:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> ICG Members
>> >>>>>>>>> Kavouss Arasteh (GAC)
>> >>>>>>>>> Paul Wilson (NRO)
>> >>>>>>>>> Daniel Karrenberg (RSSAC)
>> >>>>>>>>> Keith Davidson (ccNSO)
>> >>>>>>>>> Alissa Cooper (IETF)
>> >>>>>>>>> Jean-Jacques Subrenat (ALAC)
>> >>>>>>>>> Jari Arkko (IETF)
>> >>>>>>>>> Martin Boyle (ccNSO)
>> >>>>>>>>> Demi Getschko (ISOC)
>> >>>>>>>>> Jandyr Ferreira dos Santos (GAC)
>> >>>>>>>>> Keith Drazek (gTLD Registries)
>> >>>>>>>>> Jon Nevett (gTLD Registries)
>> >>>>>>>>> Lynn St. Amour (IAB)
>> >>>>>>>>> Michael Niebel (GAC)
>> >>>>>>>>> Narelle Clark (ISOC)
>> >>>>>>>>> Russ Housley (IAB)
>> >>>>>>>>> Russ Mundy (SSAC)
>> >>>>>>>>> Wolf-Ulrich Knoben (GNSO)
>> >>>>>>>>> Xiaodong Lee (ccNSO)
>> >>>>>>>>> Alan Barrett (NRO)
>> >>>>>>>>> Lars-Johan Liman (RSSAC)
>> >>>>>>>>> Joseph Alhadeff (ICC/BASIS)
>> >>>>>>>>> Mary Uduma (ccNSO)
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Liaisons
>> >>>>>>>>> Elise Gerich (IANA Staff Liaison)
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Apologies
>> >>>>>>>>> Kuo Wei Wu (ICANN Board Liaison)
>> >>>>>>>>> James Bladel (GNSO)
>> >>>>>>>>> Milton Mueller (GNSO)
>> >>>>>>>>> Hartmut Glaser (ASO)
>> >>>>>>>>> Manal Ismail (GAC)
>> >>>>>>>>> Mohamed El Bashir (ALAC)
>> >>>>>>>>> Patrik Fältström (SSAC)
>> >>>>>>>>> Thomas Schneider (GAC)
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Jennifer
>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>> Internal-cg mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>> Internal-cg at mm.ianacg.org
>> >>>>>>>>> http://mm.ianacg.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg_ianacg.org
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>> Internal-cg mailing list
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>> >>>>>>>> http://mm.ianacg.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg_ianacg.org
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
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>> >>
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>> >
>> >
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